Comments on: Defining Anti-Nationalism and Welcoming Americans to the World: Arundhati Roy’s “Come September” (2002) http://realityonastick.com/2007/10/15/defining-anti-nationalism-and-welcoming-americans-to-the-world-arundhati-roys-come-september-2002/ Skewered bits of what really matters. Wed, 08 Sep 2010 06:23:49 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.3 By: Michael Stout http://realityonastick.com/2007/10/15/defining-anti-nationalism-and-welcoming-americans-to-the-world-arundhati-roys-come-september-2002/#comment-450 Michael Stout Sun, 11 Nov 2007 00:40:05 +0000 http://realityonastick.com/2007/10/15/defining-anti-nationalism-and-welcoming-americans-to-the-world-arundhati-roys-come-september-2002/#comment-450 As usual Steven, we are in complete agreement and yet never boring - odd that ;) As usual Steven, we are in complete agreement and yet never boring - odd that ;)

]]> By: Steven Nishida http://realityonastick.com/2007/10/15/defining-anti-nationalism-and-welcoming-americans-to-the-world-arundhati-roys-come-september-2002/#comment-443 Steven Nishida Fri, 09 Nov 2007 02:06:31 +0000 http://realityonastick.com/2007/10/15/defining-anti-nationalism-and-welcoming-americans-to-the-world-arundhati-roys-come-september-2002/#comment-443 flat-black: Agree completely. Recently, I have become fascinated with the extent to which most people hold dear to beliefs and idealogies simply out of a desire to preserve the familiar or justify established lifestyle choices and pursuits. Like children grasping for reasons why they should be allowed to stay awake later, we allow ourselves to abandon all sound logic in defense of <a href="http://realityonastick.com/2007/10/02/shortsighted-policies-aka-reckless-planning/" rel="nofollow">shortsighted behavior</a>. Michael: It's true what you say about the "with us or against us" mentality. Unfortunately for Canadians like yourself, explaining to people overseas that you are not American is a regular occurrence, and in sensitive times like these, there are bound to be misinterpretations. I do think, however, that some non-American English speakers take it a bit to far, adding the "Thank God!" or I've even heard "I thank God every day that I'm not American." To focus on 'not being something,' or 'not wanting to be something' is, I think, putting too much emphasis on the thing itself, which opens the statement up to criticism. Of course, I agree that "America is good, and its enemies are evil" is propaganda that insults intelligence, but I also think "I am Canadian" and "I am happy with being Canadian" is less open to perceived antagonism than "I am not American" and "I don't want to be American," especially given what a lot of people really mean when they make the distinction. Very interesting points, Michael. Thanks, as always, for joining the discussion:-) flat-black: Agree completely. Recently, I have become fascinated with the extent to which most people hold dear to beliefs and idealogies simply out of a desire to preserve the familiar or justify established lifestyle choices and pursuits. Like children grasping for reasons why they should be allowed to stay awake later, we allow ourselves to abandon all sound logic in defense of shortsighted behavior.

Michael: It’s true what you say about the “with us or against us” mentality. Unfortunately for Canadians like yourself, explaining to people overseas that you are not American is a regular occurrence, and in sensitive times like these, there are bound to be misinterpretations. I do think, however, that some non-American English speakers take it a bit to far, adding the “Thank God!” or I’ve even heard “I thank God every day that I’m not American.” To focus on ‘not being something,’ or ‘not wanting to be something’ is, I think, putting too much emphasis on the thing itself, which opens the statement up to criticism. Of course, I agree that “America is good, and its enemies are evil” is propaganda that insults intelligence, but I also think “I am Canadian” and “I am happy with being Canadian” is less open to perceived antagonism than “I am not American” and “I don’t want to be American,” especially given what a lot of people really mean when they make the distinction. Very interesting points, Michael. Thanks, as always, for joining the discussion:-)

]]> By: Michael Stout http://realityonastick.com/2007/10/15/defining-anti-nationalism-and-welcoming-americans-to-the-world-arundhati-roys-come-september-2002/#comment-437 Michael Stout Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:39:25 +0000 http://realityonastick.com/2007/10/15/defining-anti-nationalism-and-welcoming-americans-to-the-world-arundhati-roys-come-september-2002/#comment-437 Absolutely brilliant post Steven. I too hope that I sincerely seek to encourage people to think rather than seek to bully people into thinking like me. Arundhati Roy is an incredible writer. She expresses her views in the snips you've quotes with the same eloquence and lyricism that she wrote The God of Small Things with. I, like you, find myself becoming a bobble head as I read her words. This reminds me of something I've been saying recently: "I am not American" is not synonymous with "I am anti-American", and neither is "I don't want to be American", but this is clearly the message we are getting from "America". This line of thinking is a perversion of the truth that America is good and Americans are good. Absolutely brilliant post Steven. I too hope that I sincerely seek to encourage people to think rather than seek to bully people into thinking like me.
Arundhati Roy is an incredible writer. She expresses her views in the snips you’ve quotes with the same eloquence and lyricism that she wrote The God of Small Things with. I, like you, find myself becoming a bobble head as I read her words. This reminds me of something I’ve been saying recently: “I am not American” is not synonymous with “I am anti-American”, and neither is “I don’t want to be American”, but this is clearly the message we are getting from “America”. This line of thinking is a perversion of the truth that America is good and Americans are good.

]]> By: flat-black http://realityonastick.com/2007/10/15/defining-anti-nationalism-and-welcoming-americans-to-the-world-arundhati-roys-come-september-2002/#comment-416 flat-black Thu, 18 Oct 2007 17:15:21 +0000 http://realityonastick.com/2007/10/15/defining-anti-nationalism-and-welcoming-americans-to-the-world-arundhati-roys-come-september-2002/#comment-416 Great quote from Roy on 9/11: "Three thousand civilians lost their lives in that lethal terrorist strike. The grief is still deep. The rage still sharp. The tears have not dried. And a strange, deadly war is raging around the world. Yet, each person who has lost a loved one surely knows secretly, deeply, that no war, no act of revenge, no daisy-cutters dropped on someone else's loved ones or someone else's children will blunt the edges of their pain or bring their own loved ones back. War cannot avenge those who have died. War is only a brutal desecration of their memory." "To fuel yet another war - this time against Iraq - by cynically manipulating people's grief, by packaging it for TV specials sponsored by corporations selling detergent or running shoes, is to cheapen and devalue the grief, to drain it of meaning. What we are seeing now is a vulgar display of the business of grief, the commerce of grief, the pillaging of even the most private human feelings for political purpose. It is a terrible, violent thing for a state to do to its people." Great quote from Roy on 9/11:

“Three thousand civilians lost their lives in that lethal terrorist strike. The grief is still deep. The rage still sharp. The tears have not dried. And a strange, deadly war is raging around the world. Yet, each person who has lost a loved one surely knows secretly, deeply, that no war, no act of revenge, no daisy-cutters dropped on someone else’s loved ones or someone else’s children will blunt the edges of their pain or bring their own loved ones back. War cannot avenge those who have died. War is only a brutal desecration of their memory.”

“To fuel yet another war - this time against Iraq - by cynically manipulating people’s grief, by packaging it for TV specials sponsored by corporations selling detergent or running shoes, is to cheapen and devalue the grief, to drain it of meaning. What we are seeing now is a vulgar display of the business of grief, the commerce of grief, the pillaging of even the most private human feelings for political purpose. It is a terrible, violent thing for a state to do to its people.”

]]> By: flat-black http://realityonastick.com/2007/10/15/defining-anti-nationalism-and-welcoming-americans-to-the-world-arundhati-roys-come-september-2002/#comment-414 flat-black Thu, 18 Oct 2007 17:14:11 +0000 http://realityonastick.com/2007/10/15/defining-anti-nationalism-and-welcoming-americans-to-the-world-arundhati-roys-come-september-2002/#comment-414 Excellent posting. I've never even heard of Arundhati Roy before. I love it when people find nifty little terms or phrases to write something off. There's no reason to think about or analyze the situation when you have statements like, "Oh, you're just anti-American", and then go back to flag-waving. Convenient little identity grids full of sweeping generalizations born out of ignorance and fear. Stemming from a distortion of the facts by brain-washing and eventually leading to brain-damage. Excellent posting. I’ve never even heard of Arundhati Roy before.

I love it when people find nifty little terms or phrases to write something off. There’s no reason to think about or analyze the situation when you have statements like, “Oh, you’re just anti-American”, and then go back to flag-waving. Convenient little identity grids full of sweeping generalizations born out of ignorance and fear. Stemming from a distortion of the facts by brain-washing and eventually leading to brain-damage.

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